1:50pm June 16, 2014

Really wish that…

youneedacat:

baeddelaire:

youneedacat:

People would stop using words like “DFAB trans” and “AFAB trans” as shorthand for, or synonymous with, “trans man” or even “trans masculine”.

I really think this is the source of a lot of messed-up ideas and misunderstandings.

Plus it completely makes it sound like the rest of us (other genders, genderqueer, neuter, neutrois, genderless, etc.) don’t exist or are somehow still the same as trans men on some level even though we’re often something totally different, with totally different types and levels of privilege and oppression and experiences in general.

Signed, someone who’s “AFAB” and genderless, and doesn’t like being assumed to have the experiences, motivations, or actions of a trans man by default

did a trans woman call u out for something lolololol

lolololol no.

What’s the problem, can’t take a factual correction without making a personal attack?

You picked the wrong person — my father is dying, I’m on my last nerve, and I’m in no mood to suffer fools. You can’t hurt me any worse than I am already hurting right now, so I’m not vulnerable to your attempts at social pressure. Other than that it motivates me even more to make sure people know the truth about things, because I know there’s people that won’t say this because they’re afraid they’ll get mocked and accused of various transgressions against the echo chamber.

There should be nothing at all controversial about pointing out that being DFAB is not the same as being a trans man, and that “DFAB” should not become a shorthand for “trans men”.

There should be nothing controversial about pointing out that the experiences of people DFAB are extremely varied, and that you can’t possibly generalize about them by extrapolating from the experiences of trans men.

There should be nothing controversial about pointing out that the privilege and oppression faced by different DFAB people is, well, different from each other. As someone (was it you, trying to actually use information instead of just pointing and laughing) pointed out, we all do benefit from transmisogyny. But that doesn’t mean that our experiences are identical or that we are all trans men, or that our experiences of privilege (including WRT transmisogyny) are identical to that of trans men.

These should not be hard concepts.

Yet everywhere I go on tumblr, I see DFAB and DMAB people alike using “DFAB” as a shorthand for “trans man” or “transmasculine”. Sometimes quite explicitly.

And as someone who is not a man, is not masculine, is not feminine, is not gendered, it offends me to be presumed male, to be presumed to be benefiting from male privilege, even, every time someone uses “DFAB” in that way.

But of course it can’t be that. It can’t possibly be that I have a real, you know, reason, for any of this. Much more fun to mock me and assume I’ve been “called out” for something and pick a fight. Much more effective as a means to keep the echo chamber echoing, too. Because lots of people inside the echo chamber are terrified of the very idea of being ‘called out’, or having been thought of as the sort of person who gets ‘called out’, that’s part of what keeps it an echo chamber.

But basically it’s really simple:

Trans men are one type of DFAB trans people.

There are dozens, at least, of other types of DFAB trans people.

Don’t treat “DFAB trans people” as a shorthand for “trans men”.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, don’t pretend we’re all identical. That goes whether you’re DFAB, DMAB, even a trans man yourself (trans men are some of the worst about this kind of thing, actually). Just don’t do it.

Shouldn’t be that complicated. Shouldn’t be controversial. Shouldn’t invite ridicule and mockery from people who apparently really want DFAB to mean trans man. (I can’t fathom the reason that someone would want it so badly that they’d mock anyone who points out the obvious reality of the situation, but then again a lot of people like their reality oversimplified, it makes it easier to build ideologies.)

Or could it be that you thought I was saying twenty different things that I wasn’t actually saying? Hint: When reading the words of an autistic person it’s best not to read between the lines. I didn’t write anything there.

Would that this was a world where trans and genderless people could simply explore what our experiences are, rather than pointlessly get into fights over what they’re not, because everyone wants everything to be too simple. Every time you simplify something to this degree, you bury the experiences of thousands of people. I refuse to be buried in the service of ideology.

Now piss off and stop mocking people for telling the truth. You aren’t going to shut me up that way, you’re just going to motivate me to keep talking.

I know you’re hurting and feeling vulnerable and I’m fan of your blog, but I do wanna say that I disagree. The term DFAB isn’t so much used to equate all DFAB people with trans men, but it can be used to convey how all DFAB people can enact transmisogyny (in varying levels, yes) over trans women or DMAB trans people. I agree DFAB people aren’t identical, but sometimes their transmisogyny can be pretty damn identical (whether from cis women, non-binary people, genderqueer people, trans men), though I must say, of course, there may be more so from trans men.

I haven’t seen DFAB used as shorthand for trans men/transmasculine people, which perhaps it has been and it shouldn’t be. But I don’t disagree with it being used as shorthand for DFAB people’s transmisogyny and power over trans DMAB people (which can look similar to the first thing, because this is particularly a problem with trans men/transmasculine people). Anyone who is not a trans DMAB person can enact transmisogyny.

I’m a non-binary DFAB person and I don’t think I’m particularly masculine (used to be more masculine-looking for a while), and I still recognize that I can enact transmisogyny and I actively work to not do so. I do think it can also be important to acknowledge and capture the nuances of identity dynamics/experiences (not only DMAB/DFAB but white supremacy or ableism or sizeism or rape culture/apologism re-enacted in queer and/or “radical” communities), as you were saying.

I can’t figure out where we disagree.

Except maybe you haven’t noticed that DFAB is used as a shorthand for trans men, and that all DFAB people are assumed to be trans men, in certain conversations. These are not necessarily conversations about transmisogyny, although they sometimes are. I’ve seen both DFAB and DMAB people making this mistake, over and over, and assuming that all DFAB trans people are male or masculine. And making specific, specific statements that back up this reading of what they are saying.

If you disagree that this has ever happened, then we disagree. Because I have seen it, repeatedly, in various conversations.

But I don’t disagree that all DFAB people can enact transmisogyny, or any of the rest of the things that you have said. All the rest of those things are right. They are not points of disagreement. They aren’t even all that relevant to the topic at hand.

The topic at hand is:

I am not a man.

I do not have male privilege.

I am not masculine.

I do not have various specific experiences related to trans maleness and trans masculinity, both privilege and oppression.

I have never, ever said I don’t have privilege over trans women or that I’m incapable of benefiting from transmisogyny.

If I were going to say that, I would have said it outright.

I have a habit of saying things outright, when I actually mean them.

But what the hell, why not have people repeatedly tell me they disagree with things I haven’t said? That’s a lot of fun right now. This makes me have to write a lot of long, pointless posts that make it very clear what I did and didn’t say.

All I can say is, if you haven’t seen people using DFAB to mean “trans man”, then you haven’t been reading the same conversations I have been reading. (Many of which have nothing to do with transmisogyny. It weirds me out that everyone so far has brought up transmisogyny, as if saying DFAB people have different experiences from each other is itself some kind of threat to the idea that we can all benefit from transmisogyny.)

At any rate, sorry for even bothering to try to clarify that I’m not a man and don’t have male privilege and don’t appreciate being assumed to be a man who has male privilege and a wide variety of other traits and experiences that men have and I don’t. (Including both oppression and privilege when it comes to being trans and male or trans and masculine.)

Apparently saying those things is far more controversial than I could have ever expected, because nobody is willing to read the actual words and stop reading really bizarre statements in between the lines. It’s almost as if people want to start a fight.

Notes: