as small as a world and as large as alone

12:45pm July 9, 2014

cayenaleva:

madeofpatterns:

fierceawakening:

nentuaby:

madeofpatterns:

fierceawakening:

When people say “Don’t tell me not to fight hate with hate,” I’m confused.

Because I can kind of get it if it’s almost a way of “reclaiming” the word: “You called me ‘hateful’ because I said something passionately and stood up for my beliefs. If that’s…

I think it’s most often neither of the above. It’s mostly that the people saying “don’t tell me” feel the idea of “fighting hate with hate” is being used against them disingenuously. That is, that it is being used as tone policing / gaslighting when they express sentiments that are frankly worded, but not actually hateful by any reasonable definition.

I think this happens, but I also think that the idea of “tone policing” can be taken too far. I think it’s very easy to misuse anything that gives you blanket permission to say ANYTHING you want and to dismiss anyone who tells you the things you’ve said were hurtful.

I can’t speak for every use of “don’t fight hate with hate,” but I can say that when I use it, I mean that I find some things people say — such as literally defending hating members of oppressor groups because “this is not about being nice” and because “only members of oppressor groups would critique anyone for defending hate” — not only wrong but dangerous and self-defeating. I would rather that not be part of any movement I’m associated with.

(And yeah, I know I’m not gonna talk everyone out of it. But I think I am allowed to say my opinion of it.)

I also think forbidding “tone policing” can unwittingly be a way of giving a free hall pass to abusive individuals as long as they use social justice words.

The fact that we are accused of it unjustly does *not* mean it’s impossible to be guilty of it, or unimportant to avoid doing it for real.

I agree with the above, and I also would like to point out that these things have a certain pattern to them, which is that they are only directed at social justice people and not their oppressors by the people who say it.

I mean, yes, I agree, marginalized people are not perfect and can damage people with vitriol. That’s fine. But at the same time, the vitriol being levied at us is not met with the same admonishment. If someone says something ignorant, someone else tries exasperatedly to explain that ignorance, and the ignorant person goes off on the person trying to explain, “don’t fight hate with hate” isn’t usually something said to the ignorant person. So I think a lot of people find that particular axiom very hard to take seriously when, even if it does have some merit, they are the only ones held to that standard.

I think in some ways it’s easier to direct such things at people who are clearly more interested in changing their ways, rather than at people who are just being oppressive jerks.  I don’t know if that’s a factor or not, but it would make sense if it was.

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